These savings aren’t good news

What a heartening headline to wake up to in the Journal Times: “$1 million in savings” (Dec. 9).

Good news in hard times. But reading the news article about the “savings” in the Sheriff’s Office gave lie to the headline’s claim.

Cutting the pay in half for jail guards has ramifications that pose negative consequences on economic and moral grounds.

From an economic view, Sheriff Schmaling has gutted the spending power of our county’s economic middle class by $1 million. That means less demand for goods, resulting in lower employment rates in manufacturing and retail.

From a moral point of view, our young sheriff and his recent predecessors ought to be ashamed of themselves.

The modest diminution of duties and responsibilities of “nonsworn” sergeants in no way compensates for such a drastic cut in pay. We owe more than that to anyone who puts on an officer’s uniform.

If Sheriff Schmaling is serious about saving money, he should publicly support rehabilitation programs instead of jail for minor drug and alcohol law violations.

If he is looking for facilities for such programs, I recommend remodeling and using some of the vacant space in that monstrous jail facility that is still costing us millions of dollars.

The Rev. Glen A. Halbe

Racine

Thanks to veterans

I would like to commend and thank Educators Credit Union, Racine Harley-Davidson and McDonald’s on Highway 20 for flying their flags at half-staff on Pearl Harbor Day, Dec 7. Many other businesses with flags did not.

I had to stop and think about why they were and, when I realized what day it was, it made me pause to give thanks to our veterans then, and all military people now and through history for fighting for our freedom.

We need to always remember and give thanks.

Diane Borgardt

Mount Pleasant

Guns kill

Thank you for printing Gregory Clay’s commentary on guns in America (Journal Times, Dec. 12).

It has long been known that if a gun is in a house, it is much more likely to be used to shoot someone who lives there than an intruder. In gun-crazy America, that has never mattered.

Guns are fun. Until someone is shot.

Frank N. Egerton

Racine

(62) comments

Zigmond
Zigmond

The Progressive anti-2nd Amendment propaganda push is on folks --- [snip] In '95, Holder called for anti-gun info campaign: 'Brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different

http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder-has-called-for-anti-gun-campaign-by-media-cultural-figures/article/2516161#.UM9WSayk07A

Zigmond
Zigmond

Thanks to the ACLU, there are no hospitals to hold (against their will) mentally ill people before they hurt or kill people with guns, etc.. The police and family members know who these people are. Family members living down the hallway every day, are wondering if the ill person will kill them in their sleep. But there is no manditory medication for those that can be medicated, and no option for institutionalization of those that refuse, until they are convicted of the crime. Society must see that with some medically certified mental disorders, there comes an almost certain violent outcome for innocent people that cross paths with them in the future.

Progressive ideas are the reason these laws have been reversed, unleashing crazies into our homes and streets. The social engineer Eggheads have royally screwed up again.
See this mothers touching essay of such a child. - http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-says-mom-of-mentally-ill-son?gt1=50501

Zigmond
Zigmond

Guns kill exceptionally well when in the hands of unchecked, known to be severely unstable, sick people. Read this article from a mother of possibly the next mass murderer by her own account. - Mom says 'I am Adam Lanza's mother,' details life with terrifying son - http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-says-mom-of-mentally-ill-son?gt1=50501

But forget that, the Progressive (Communist/Socialist Anti-Constitution) media is on the Anti-liberty/Constitution march and are not going to "let a good crisis go to waste" in pushing to dilute our 2nd Amendment rights. They live and breath to take away any chunk out of the Constitution rights/liberties, "by any means necessary".

MC
MC

It is with such hypocracy that the leftys constantly accuse those on the right of not using facts and make such absurd statements such as the right can't handle the facts, yet completly ignore a glaring FACT about guns.- restrictive gun laws only inhibit the law-abiding gun owners. Restrictive gun laws however many you pile on will never stop gun crime by the lawless.

CaptTim
CaptTim

Granny,

The victims were all unarmed in the war zone. That's the crazy part.

Westsider
Westsider

If we don't act to protect the most vulnerable; children 5 and 6 years old in our country, what does it say about us as a society, and the value of our "freedom"?

granny grits
granny grits

The gun crazies are willing to double down on stupid after a terrible tragedy. Do you want to send your kids to school in an armed war zone?

'The nation’s most well known gun lobby (NRA) is nowhere to be found, but other gun advocates are responding to the tragedy by demanding more guns, arguing that had school administrators or teachers been allowed to carry guns into Sandy Hook Elementary, the tragedy could have been prevented:'

– “Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to insure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered.” [Larry Pratt, Gun Owners Of America]

– “Had Connecticut not had the no guns in school laws….Had the principal, the maintenance man, a teacher, been allowed to keep a gun in their office, maybe just maybe, this would have come out differently.” [Bob Irwin, The Gun Store]

– “I only wish the kindergarten teacher and principal in Connecticut had been armed.” [Dr. Keith Ablow, Fox News]

– “[S]o looking at this tragedy that happened with K-12, we might have to have an armed employee at the schools, that’s a measure, that’s a measure.” [Michele Fiore, Nevada Assemblywoman]

– “Look at what has happened, all these attacks this year have occurred where guns are banned.” [John Lott, author of More Guns, Less Crime]

– “Well, I believe those of us who are licensed to carry, are responsible people, shouldn’t be prohibited from carrying in schools or other places.” [Steve Dulan, Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners]

Westsider
Westsider

The white men took this country from the red men and enslaved the black men with the gun and shaped this nation. Now ---for a black president to ask Americans to give up their guns; that's get complicated.

CaptTim
CaptTim

I think a big part of the problem is the excessive and instantaneous media coverage of tragic incidents such as this. If the Congress would pass a law prohibiting the media from covering and reporting on events such as this, the evil people committing these crimes would not have the satisfaction of believing they'd be "famous" and the problem would dissipate. Also, companies should be prohibited from publishing violent video games, as I believe these also contribute to the problem in our society as a whole.

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

An American says: The bible said if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword.

Finally, in January 2012, President Obama --acknowledging the CIA’s drone program for the first time -- said strikes do not causelarge amounts of civilian casualties. TBIJ finds that at the time of Obama’s statement, at least 284 civilians, and at least 62 children, had died from strikes since he came into office in January 2009.

Drone strikes that kill civilians also exact a substantial toll on livelihoods byincapacitating the primary income earners of families. Because men aretypically the primary income earners in their families, strikes often deprive victims’ families of “a key, and perhaps its only, source of income .” Families struggle to compensate for the lost income, often
forcing children orother younger relatives to forgo school and enter the workforce at ayoung age.

One man described the reaction to the sound of the drones as “a wave of terror” coming over the community. “Children, grown -up people, women, they are terrified. . . . They scream in terror.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/115147268/Youth-Disrupted-Effects-of-U-S-Drone-Strikes-on-Children-in-Targeted-Areas

U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen have caused the death of 178 children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zf8bnYF-WxE

SO, God sent the shooter?

jrunny
jrunny

Keep up your hate un commie. as of today I can't call you a American. As this country mourns 28 lost souls. We can see that you are heartless steaming pile. But hey continue your republican posts. As everyone you post punches. that ticket for your soul to devil

An American
An American

What communist country do you belong to because you hate the poor and middle class so much. You are no American, comrade. You don't believe in unity, so what do you belive in. We all know you have turned you back on American veterans. Thank God Almighty I neve had share a fox hole with a turncoat.

granny grits
granny grits

Just the other day the educationally challenged one was quoting Putin's views.

outoftowner53105
outoftowner53105

I see that granny and unAmerican cannot restrain their glee at the Conn. shooting. They are so happy that they have a massacre to use in trying to take away peoples rights.

"Never let a crisis go to waste"

Obama will be so proud of you.

The rest of us, not so much.

granny grits
granny grits

I see you are still a very ignorant person, too.

jrunny
jrunny

un commie American you have finally proved you are heartless steaming pile. 20 angels went to school dreaming of Santa . And all you post is your insults. St. Peter won't be waiting for you as the flames of the devil will greet your hate filled soul.

An American
An American

You seem to know plenty about Satan..... hmmmm. I am not the one with hate, but those who refuse to do anything about the shootings that have robbed many inocent lives do. Not to mention those who would rather throw our elederly and veterans under the bus by attacking Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Veteran Benefits. Oh yeah, they have love in the heart for money the would rather see deverted to their wealty gods like Paul Ryan's budget would do.

An American
An American

The bible said if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. Maybe the sword in that verse is a couple thousand years old, but I can't help but believe it still pertains to: if you live by the asault weapon you will die by the asault weapon. But then we all know Republicans have rewriten the bible to suit their ways. Save the fetus, kill the ....

Blindman
Blindman

I think it's a God given right to defend yourself and family...It is not to argue about one who chooses to do that...Argue about the retarded people that use firearms to abuse the defenceless.

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

God sent the shooter. It is biblically based, as you claim - and I must concur that it does seem to happen. The link would be the murder of children by US drones right?

U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen have caused the death of 178 children.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zf8bnYF-WxE

God Sent The Shooter - this video explains the biblical meaning of "If you live by the sword, you shall die by the sword"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cd2_1296419006

I can't say I disagree.

DEO
DEO

Un American - Just WHEN did conservatives rewrite the Bible? What a MORONIC statement! Again for someone that CLAIMS to be Christian you sure do NOT FOLLOW the teachings of Christ!

When arguing with fools, be sure to answer their foolish arguments, or they will become wise in their own estimation. 6 Trusting a fool to convey a message is as foolish as cutting off one's feet or drinking poison! 7 In the mouth of a fool, a proverb becomes as limp as a paralyzed leg. 8 Honoring a fool is as foolish as tying a stone to a slingshot. 9 A proverb in a fool's mouth is as dangerous as a thornbush brandished by a drunkard. 10 An employer who hires a fool or a bystander is like an archer who shoots recklessly. 11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.

I would say this fits you quite well!

An American
An American

Why don't you tell me what Bible verse it is that says don't worry about your neighbor, live they money as your own. Is it right there with abandone the sick, the elederly and bank all you can? Their health is not your concern or worry, according to your Christian beleifs. Apparently your interpetation fits you quite well. You never saw or read about Jesus Christ worrying about the poor, did you?

An American
An American

Oh yeah, that thing about Jesus losing His cool with the money changers in His Fathers Temple, that must have been a big understanding, right?

Blindman
Blindman

You "guys" make it sound like dems don't carry guns,or own guns...I'm sure some of your comrades aren't going to be too willing to give them up.

2brnt2b
2brnt2b

what's that ggmuls? keep our hands off your junk? your what? that's an instrument of death, not created for cooking or driving, just killing. It's not like it's an appendage that you cannot live without.

Some people are just looking to get popped. keep waving that junk over your head.

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

Time out for you.

granny grits
granny grits

Sure is a lot of deflecting information being aimed at low information voters. It's almost like a dog whistle for knuckle draggers.

An American
An American

Granny, your wisdom is great. How many more have to die so these right wing nut jobs can play cowboy with a gun. Something is very wrong when you add up these tradgedies, even those as close as those that happened in Oak Creek recently, and that which recently happened at the Spa in Waukesha. I know there are many more besides those which happened in Wisconsin, but as you know, our gun-toating Republican counterparts could care less. They only care about themselves and their guns.

Blindman
Blindman

There is a reason this country has never been invaded.

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

LIMA, Ohio – A woman suddenly drove her car into a crowded town square in northwest Ohio, injuring 20 to 25 people, some of whom were pinned under the car and freed when bystanders lifted it, authorities and witnesses said.

The chaotic scene unfolded after 9 p.m. Friday night when an unidentified woman drove her Oldsmobile sedan into a crowd of dozens gathered for a weekly community event featuring live music, Lima police said. The car appeared to be at a complete stop before it was driven into the square, witnessed told the Lima News. It also struck an old sculpture in the square at full speed.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/16/bystanders-lift-car-to-free-victims-after-ohio-woman-mows-down-crowd/#ixzz2F3B75D2u

granny grits
granny grits

Another shooting in Connecticut at a school.

'Multiple people — including children — were killed on Friday morning when at least one gunman opened fire in an Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, CT. The school’s principal was apparently the target of the attack, according to MSNBC.'

'Children were apparently told to run out of the building with their eyes closed after the incident occurred Friday. TIME reports that one teacher was shot in the foot. The extent of other injuries is not yet known, but MSNBC reports that the apparent gunman has been killed.'

'The shooter was reportedly an adult. Two handguns were recovered from the scene. Reports from the Hartford Courant suggest that the shooting took place inside of a kindergarten classroom.'

'The Sandy Hook school serves children in grades kindergarten through 4th. The entire school system in the area is now reportedly on lock down.'

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

MIAMI — A charter bus carrying 32 members of a church group hit a concrete overpass at Miami International Airport after the driver got lost Saturday, killing two elderly people on board and leaving three others critically injured, officials said.

http://www.pnj.com/viewart/20121202/NEWS02/312020012/Florida-airport-bus-crash-kills-2-3-critical

MONTERREY, Spain — A bus carrying elderly vacationers skidded off a highway and tumbled down a 450-foot ravine in northwestern Spain on Friday, killing 38 people and seriously injuring seven, officials said.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-07-04/news/mn-192_1_bus-carrying-elderly

Give Me a Break
Give Me a Break

BEIJING (Reuters) - A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on schoolchildren in the country.

The man attacked the children at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province, the Xinhua news agency reported.

Westsider
Westsider

How many were killed?

Westsider
Westsider

Shooting in CT won't be the last or the most horrific. There will be more, and even more heinous. Anyone willing to doubt? And each time it happens, the public will grow increasing pro gun restriction. It's just a matter of time; better sooner than later.

An American
An American

Boy oh boy, Granny. You hit the nail on the head again. Ted Nugent, Republicans, they can't come up with enough ways to KILL people, or in today's case, kindergardners. They argue that guns don't kill people -- that people kill people. Yet they have no conscience for what these lunatics do. Their hands-off, constitutional protection of guns is not what our founding fathers would have expected or promoted -- weapons that burp out 100 rounds per minute. The party of life, yeah, right. They are more like the party of DEATH, especially after today. Oh yeah, they adore Ted Nugent as the famous draft dodger he himself boasted to be. But that's Republicans for you. Keep up the good work, Granny. They have no idea what the bible meant by "The truth shall set you free."

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

2011 CDC - a government agency - leading causes of death:

#1: Diseases of the heart (anger, envy, greed, ME first, etc. personified by unhealthy living)
#6: Alzheimer's Disease
#10: Suicide
#12: Chronic liver disease and cirrohsis
#14: Parkinson's Disease

Well, now the CDC only has the top 15 - and guns aren't in there.

Here is an interesting post from the Democratic Underground:

From the CDC for 2005, published Dec 2009.

Very interesting stats. Everyone should have a read as it may change some misconceptions....maybe.....

#1 - Salmonella

#96 - Motor Vehicle Accidents

#99 - Accidental Falls

#100 - Accidental Discharge of Firearms

#101 - Accidental Drowning

#105 - Suicide by Firearm

#106 - Suicide by other means

#107 - Homicide by firearm

#108 - Homicide by other instrument

#113 - Complications of Medical Care

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr58/nvsr58_08.pdf

Looks like Suicides got lumped together in 2011.

As of 2000, Florida ranked #4 in population but ranked #21 in suicides. Since the right-to-carry law was enacted in Florida the following changes occured. The homicide rate dropped 36%, firearm homicides dropped 37%, and handgun homicides dropped 41%. In the ten states that adopted right-to-carry laws the results were:

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/gunfacts.shtml

Guns save lives.


commander giro
commander giro

Frank, guns are fun if you used it on your dumb DNA ...and to that An Commie American..52 million babies aborted(mass murdered) because you say its just cells..Oh by the way since your talking constitution nut job, its PROMOTE general welfare not PROVIDE.

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

Stoves Kill

Hundreds of Americans die every year from carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning.

It has long been known that if a stove is in a house, it is much more likely to be used to used for a heat source if the furnace doesn't work. In stove-crazy America, that has never mattered.

Stoves are fun. Until someone is gassed by Carbon Monoxide.

ggodmuls

Racine

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/consumer/09939.html

Some of my favorite killers are: Automobiles, stoves, leaky furnaces, stairs, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, meth, heroin, planes, and falling buildings!

CAREFUL PARENTS

Stairs can kill your child. Windows pose the same threat. If you leave a window open and a child can reach it, a child will often climb right over the sill and fall.

Here are some more common, household KILLERS:

Plastic Bags, Buckets, Electrical Outlets, Dogs - YES DOGS MURDER CHILDREN, cords on blinds and drapes, and in Racine - throwing children repeatedly to the ground.

http://marshallbrain.com/cp/stairs.htm

Life is terminal - if we banned Life, nobody would die.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that it is a shame that stupidity is not painful.

granny grits
granny grits

Reading your posts is more lethal than a stove, but feel free to continue with extremely ridiculous analogies.

Westsider
Westsider

What???Why these analogies? As if to further prove, no heart and no brain.

Give Me a Break
Give Me a Break

Granny, good job making light of a tragic situation. Must be proud of your humanity.
Ironically, for all the talk liberals have about the founding fathers and how republicans are blindly adhering to the words of dead white guys, they don't see how close the beliefs are. After all, isn't the complaint about corporatism, and the buying of votes really just no taxation without representation in another form?

granny grits
granny grits

I made light of a child's death in your distorted dreams. I can see that comprehension is not your strongest suit.

Your response seems to be an opportunity for you to go off on some tangential rant about liberals. Do you feel better now?

tansandy
tansandy

Rev Halbe, I am so glad that you are concerned about the amount of money paid out in wages. I have a great idea. When are you and your parishioners going to step up to the plate and commit a percentage of your weekly offerings to go for paying the higher salaries? And when will you and your church take the degenerates in jail that you say need rehabilitation, and take them into your houses? What a savings there!

ProudRacineNatives
ProudRacineNatives

"Careless and untrained" people cause the tragedies of gun deaths/injuries in a home. No different than "careless and untrained" people die from electrocuting themselves doing electrical work they shouldn't be, or inattentive driving while texting/eating/talking etc, or a host of other strange and unusual ways. (see Darwin Awards) I am all in favor of gun ownership, but the training courses available are kind of a joke. The bad guys get the guns no matter what. Ban them all together, and they will still find them and use them. Have you ever been to a gun show? There are countless numbers of guns available even of they were to completely outlaw them tomorrow. If someone is willing to rob, kill, or hurt, they have no issue with breaking one more law. How many times do we read about people charged with "possession of a firearm by a felon?" They aren't supposed to have them, but they still find a way.

outoftowner53105
outoftowner53105

Guns do kill people. They are pretty efficient at at.

Hammers kill people. They are not as efficient as other tools, but they get the job done.

Knives kill people. Again, not very efficient, but they get the job done.

Arrows kill people. One must be adept in the use of a bow, but it works.

People kill people with their bare hands. Probably the least efficient manner to do it, but it is often accomplished nonetheless.

I could go on, but the point is that the common denominator is that people are involved in all of these. The gun, the hammer, the arrow, the knife, are all nothing but tools used to achieve an end.

People were committing murder since we formed into clans or tribes at the dawn of civilization. There were no guns to help them but they managed to kill others fairly efficiently. They used rocks or crude spears or their bare hands. Eliminating guns will do nothing to stop that from continueing for whatever remains of our future.

As for the right to bear arms. The FF knew that a situation might come to pass where the people may have to cast off an overbearing or abusive government. They knew this because they had just done that very thing. They even wrote that it is the right and duty of the people to do this. How are the people to accomplish such a feat if the government takes away the right of the people to even own a weapon?

Westsider
Westsider

So....governments possess nuclear weapons..and we should have the right to own them too. Maybe be just a tank in every garage. These ridiculous examples just heighten the emptiness of your arguments. So I guess, keep it up.

granny grits
granny grits

Just recently there was another tragedy involving a gun where the father shot his young son, accidentally, yet still dead. I'm guessing he's done with this macho gun thing.

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

I sure hope you are done with that driving thing! Automobiles have caused more death and mayhem than guns.

"A two-year-old child has died after falling from his grandmother's car after apparently undoing his own car seat.

Levi Brailsford's grandmother heard him unbuckle the harness and tried to pull over on a road in Stockwood, Bristol, to re-fasten it when the door opened and the child fell out.

Police are investigating the possibility that Levi was then crushed under the wheels of the car as it turned.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2144228/Toddler-2-killed-wheels-grandmothers-moving-car-falling-open-door.html#ixzz2F2CUVQkZ

"Nearly two dozen Good Samaritans rushed to rescue a woman and her two toddler grandchildren when they were run over by an elderly driver in a busy section of Brooklyn Friday afternoon, authorities and witnesses said."

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Woman-Toddlers-Struck-Car-Elderly-Driver-Brooklyn-Humboldt-Moore-172872851.html

granny grits
granny grits

Well, that certainly is on topic like most of your posts.

Relocate
Relocate

Drunks who drive cars kill people. Ban the alcohol (bullets), and ensure no one in this country can drive (gun.)

The notion that an inanimate object is responsible for anything whatsoever is ridiculous. Makes me wonder if you have such similar inanimate object (rock) between your ears.

Blindman
Blindman

LOL

Give Me a Break
Give Me a Break

An American,
Do you think the founders would have wanted us to have a tank? I'm sure they would have agreed to limit possession of those to the military and special forces. Excuse me, police tactical units.
Since many liberals have no idea how a firearm works, I'll explain it. A gun needs bullets. Those bullets must be loaded, in one way or another, by a human. Another important part of a firearm is called a trigger. This is the part that allows the bullet to leave the gun in an expeditious manner towards the target. Strangely, most guns are incapable of pulling the trigger themselves, and require the intervention of a human.
Something to keep in mind when you blame the gun, and not the human for a murder.

Blindman
Blindman

He still won't get it...I've tried many times but they just can't understand what's logical...Or sensible...Or reasonable...Or responsible (dependant on the fed to take care of them)...From what I've read on here,"an american" is getting a gov't check each month.

An American
An American

You are so full of yourself. I have worked hard for more than 40 years, still working, and get no government checks. But like a typical Republican, you can't deal with the facts.

ordmm
ordmm

An Ameridan...For the record so we don't have to guess. What is it you do for a living?

An American
An American

I agree that the fouding fathers had no vision of tanks, nor any other modern day firearrm when they penned the Constitution. The proble is that today's ignorants believe that is what they had in mind when the signed the Constitution. How stupid should we be? At the time they signed the Constitution into law, muskets were the weapon of the day. How long should we live in the past, or die in the present?

ggodmuls
ggodmuls

The Rev. Glen A. Halbe - Reverand? Do you benefit from calling yourself a 501C-3 tax exempt corporation?

Do you pay social security tax?

Didn't you trade the political talk for tax exempt status as part of your agreement with the IRS to be a tax-exempt corporation?

You've overstepped the boundaries of your IRS Masters - methinks.

An American
An American

People kill is a very stupid response. They kill becasuse they can. Blindman, and a very good name for him or her, has no idea how quick a life can be ended. Those kind of ignorant pople willl quicky proved their responses against gun control, negating the fact that even James Brady, Ronald Regan's press secretay who use to promote guns, changed his mind after nearly dying in the asanation attempt.

You have to be a moron to think that the fathers of the Constitution had any idea what tanks, air craft and other modern arms was. Grow up and come to reality before you have a bazzoka in your driveway.

Blindman
Blindman

Typical democrat...Insult or be violent with people that don't share your point of view...The founding fathers put the 2nd ammendment in place to defend America against people like you.

An American
An American

Are you saying these great patriots could see 200 years or more into the future? WoW. And they must have thought mass murder was just fine. I have a problem with your thinking. I doubt they would have said take your musket into a movie theater or mall and kill as many as you want. That is your right. I will sign here to make it so.

Blindman
Blindman

Guns DON'T kill...PEOPLE kill...If a gun isn't available,they will find another tool to do the job.

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